erraticwisdom

Comments

1. If we remove ourselves from the language of “life,” and so from what seem to be artificial delimiters, and look instead at physical systems, it’s not so surprising that things would organize similarly at various orders of magnitude. Whether Gaia or not, we each contribute to the usage and change of our localities, and to progressively smaller degrees, the planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the local galactic group, etc. If in fact the universe is infinite, then our effect approaches none.

   Assuming that much of what we have deduced of the nature of the universe comes, ultimately, from the breakage of symmetry in those fleeting Planck timeframes after the Big Bang, and assuming (a bit larger assumption, maybe) that the dimension or granularity of this breakage is fairly constant, or at least similarly proportional, at most/all scales, then we might expect similar patterns of organization all the way up and all the way down.

   Daniel Black

   Feb 24, 07:27 AM #

2. Daniel Black: If in fact the universe is infinite, then our effect approaches none.

   Very good point. Using the term “role” was probably a mistake on my part, its implications are a bit too teleological. As components in a larger system, each would still serve some function, no? Nobody would deny that the effect of one of those skin cells was virtually nil, but the cell itself serves to insulate, waterproof, etc. the body.

   Assuming that much of what we have deduced of the nature of the universe comes, ultimately, from the breakage of symmetry in those fleeting Planck timeframes after the Big Bang, and assuming (a bit larger assumption, maybe) that the dimension or granularity of this breakage is fairly constant, or at least similarly proportional, at most/all scales, then we might expect similar patterns of organization all the way up and all the way down.

   As the original components began to combine and aggregate in novel ways, their paths diverged, radiating from those early moments. When you have ridiculous amounts of time, those components develop in increasingly different ways. Two points on the periphery of opposite poles would vary significantly on larger scales. I think it’s turtles all the way down, but I highly doubt there are turtles anywhere else in the universe.

   Thame

   Mar 2, 12:29 PM #

3. You should read What is Life by Dorion Sagan and Lynn Margulis. It’s full of much much more of this. More interesting than how we live, perhaps, is why we die, which is also explained in the book.

   >>Easily, and without qualification, the human body is the most exquisite machine we have discovered in our universe.

   I think if you truly want to get at “what’s the point” and “why are we here,” etc, you need to grow beyond the human bias here. The human body is an exquisite machine, but all of life is exquisite. There’s nothing particularly superior about human life in the terms you’re using here: specialization, function, design… Miracles are everywhere. I really don’t think you can make progress on the issue with humans at the absolute center of the question.

   scarabic

   Mar 5, 08:31 PM #

4. That looks like a great book, parts are available on Google.

   scarabic: There’s nothing particularly superior about human life in the terms you’re using here: specialization, function, design

   I think there is though, and that there’s nothing egotistical about putting us in the center. Our brains are far more advanced than any living thing on the planet; there’s a reason why we’re the only ones asking that question. When I ask “why am I here”, I’m asking it as a conscious individual, I want to know the reason for my existence (whether or not it’s common with others).

   Thame

   Mar 14, 03:10 PM #

5. We certainly are an egocentric group. What about the universe makes you think that the human concept of “purpose” exists apart from our own minds? Nothing I have seen in my short experience has lead me to believe that purpose is anything more than our attempt to impose order on our existence. What if the question “why” in reference to our existence has no answer other than what we choose to give it? You might save yourself some time, and sanity, if you were to let go of the idea of a universal why.

   quijotesco

   Mar 17, 10:45 AM #

6. I discovered this link from some “Top 50 Philosophy Websites” and I am impressed, but also annoyed that you don’t write more often (stupid med school). I am, however, surprised at your thinking about turtles “all the way up” though. I see your point looking downward—without fundamental particles, we wouldn’t have mitochondria, bacteria, skin cells, organs, humans, ecosystems. But—I am unclear how a healthy living planet has anything to do with the rest of the planets, the sun, galaxies, and so forth. A dead one is just as useful. It seems the link is broken before “life form” and after “living planet” because mass is about all the properties that we have to link larger astronomical entities with each other. While light conveys all sorts of information about chemical properties of the planet, as far as we can tell, chemistry (besides the amount) has nothing to do with how galaxies interact. Titan doesn’t affect Saturn or any of the other planets with its oceans of methane. The weather on Jupiter doesn’t affect Orion. And so forth. Perhaps I am wrong but linking beyond these levels feels like some need to be significant, rather than a scientific approach. (I have no trouble suggesting consciousness or humanity is significant, I just don’t think they are to the galaxies).

   Carolyn

   Jul 1, 07:14 PM #

7. I don’t know if human purpose is even a matter of choice, if we are limiting ourselves to science. Some would reduce it to a very complex response still geared toward survival: connection/collaboration, drive, curiosity toward learning and control of environment.

   While I agree that there are many measures to greatness in the living kingdom (near immortality of some plants, near indestructiveness of tardigrades, sheer volume of living mass, longevity over epochs), the human brain is a wonder of evolutionary investment. The rest of us is otherwise just a delicious chicken nugget to so many other creatures. It is worth asking how this differs on an order of magnitude, that creates the culture (language, art, music, film, philosophy), social systems (government, money, technology, air traffic control), and disasters that are uniquely ours.

   Carolyn

   Jul 2, 05:08 AM #

8. Besides gravity, the only other known force to operate at those scales is entanglement, and I’m not sure we know enough to make claims about how one change affects another in a predictable way.

   Carolyn

   Jul 2, 05:17 AM #