erraticwisdom: Turtles All the Way Up

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That pervasive question, “what are we doing here”, or more accurately, “what’s the fucking point” continues to steal away my attention (and sanity). Looking up is one impetus, but more recently looking inward has reignited my internal debate on our position in the universe and what role we might play on a larger scale.

Easily, and without qualification, the human body is the most exquisite machine we have discovered in our universe. Its design (excuse that term’s implications) and function are staggering in their complexity and ingenuity, and what we are capable of through our bodies simply begs for a “bigger picture”. As I look inward, I see that the functional units of the human form present an apt analogy for our own lives. The trillions of cells that comprise my body are not unlike the billions of people that inhabit this planet. The cells of a growing embryo differentiate into specialized cells with specific jobs in the larger organism, just as we might develop and contribute our abilities to a larger society.

An embryonic stem cell can (by controlling the genes expressed) differentiate into every cell type in the human body.

For example, red blood cells (erythrocytes) are an oxygen transport army, so specialized, in fact, that they’ve lost their nucleus and are essentially sacs of hemoglobin. As a result, they cannot synthesize their own proteins and are recycled frequently. The skin cells of the epidermis are similarly short-lived, just brushing your arm will cause millions of dead cells to slough off the outermost layer. Neurons, on the other hand, are cellular royalty. Extremely specialized, they detect stimuli and conduct electrical impulses controlling most of the autonomic and voluntary activities of the body, and more importantly they’re responsible for the higher-level functions of the brain.

Every cell plays its own role in the functioning of the larger organism, and some are more important that others. Even so, no single cell is essential for the survival of the organism, and even the regal neuron relies on an array of support cells (that outnumber it by a factor of ten) for its survival.

As one goes further down, the pattern repeats with constituent parts contributing to a larger function or set of properties (within an organ, a single cell, molecules, elements, subatomic particles, etc). What function do we participate in (and what role will I play), what about all those stars and galaxies? Is it “turtles all the way up”?

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At: 08:53:34 PM
On: February 22
In: Teleology Science
By: Tom Fadial

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If we remove ourselves from the language of “life,” and so from what seem to be artificial delimiters, and look instead at physical systems, it’s not so surprising that things would organize similarly at various orders of magnitude. Whether Gaia or not, we each contribute to the usage and change of our localities, and to progressively smaller degrees, the planet, the solar system, the galaxy, the local galactic group, etc. If in fact the universe is infinite, then our effect approaches none.

Assuming that much of what we have deduced of the nature of the universe comes, ultimately, from the breakage of symmetry in those fleeting Planck timeframes after the Big Bang, and assuming (a bit larger assumption, maybe) that the dimension or granularity of this breakage is fairly constant, or at least similarly proportional, at most/all scales, then we might expect similar patterns of organization all the way up and all the way down.
Daniel Black

Feb 24, 10:27 AM #
Daniel Black: If in fact the universe is infinite, then our effect approaches none.

Very good point. Using the term “role” was probably a mistake on my part, its implications are a bit too teleological. As components in a larger system, each would still serve some function, no? Nobody would deny that the effect of one of those skin cells was virtually nil, but the cell itself serves to insulate, waterproof, etc. the body.

Assuming that much of what we have deduced of the nature of the universe comes, ultimately, from the breakage of symmetry in those fleeting Planck timeframes after the Big Bang, and assuming (a bit larger assumption, maybe) that the dimension or granularity of this breakage is fairly constant, or at least similarly proportional, at most/all scales, then we might expect similar patterns of organization all the way up and all the way down.

As the original components began to combine and aggregate in novel ways, their paths diverged, radiating from those early moments. When you have ridiculous amounts of time, those components develop in increasingly different ways. Two points on the periphery of opposite poles would vary significantly on larger scales. I think it’s turtles all the way down, but I highly doubt there are turtles anywhere else in the universe.
Thame

Mar 2, 03:29 PM #
You should read What is Life by Dorion Sagan and Lynn Margulis. It’s full of much much more of this. More interesting than how we live, perhaps, is why we die, which is also explained in the book.

>>Easily, and without qualification, the human body is the most exquisite machine we have discovered in our universe.

I think if you truly want to get at “what’s the point” and “why are we here,” etc, you need to grow beyond the human bias here. The human body is an exquisite machine, but all of life is exquisite. There’s nothing particularly superior about human life in the terms you’re using here: specialization, function, design… Miracles are everywhere. I really don’t think you can make progress on the issue with humans at the absolute center of the question.
scarabic

Mar 5, 11:31 PM #
That looks like a great book, parts are available on Google.

scarabic: There’s nothing particularly superior about human life in the terms you’re using here: specialization, function, design

I think there is though, and that there’s nothing egotistical about putting us in the center. Our brains are far more advanced than any living thing on the planet; there’s a reason why we’re the only ones asking that question. When I ask “why am I here”, I’m asking it as a conscious individual, I want to know the reason for my existence (whether or not it’s common with others).
Thame

Mar 14, 06:10 PM #
We certainly are an egocentric group. What about the universe makes you think that the human concept of “purpose” exists apart from our own minds? Nothing I have seen in my short experience has lead me to believe that purpose is anything more than our attempt to impose order on our existence. What if the question “why” in reference to our existence has no answer other than what we choose to give it? You might save yourself some time, and sanity, if you were to let go of the idea of a universal why.
quijotesco

Mar 17, 01:45 PM #